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Kilmaronock Community Council

Kilmaronock Community Council 
Agenda 7 January 2019 


  1. Sederunt
  2. Apologies
  3. Declaration of interest
  4. Minutes of regular meeting on 5 November 2018
  5. Matters arising and Associated issues
  6. Treasurers Report
  7. Planning matters
  8. Kilmaronock Community Trust
  9. National Park and Community Partnership issues
  10. West Dunbartonshire Council
  11. Correspondence
  12. AOCB
  13. Next regular meeting:  4 March 2019

Ordinary Meeting of KCC
Monday 7th January 2019 at 6.30pm
Kilmaronock Millennium Hall  


Committee : Gavin MacLellan (GM/Chair), Andrew Sinnott (AS/Trs), Jim Morrison (JM/Vice chair), David Scott-Park (DSP), Sarah Guy (SG) & Ivan Mavor (IM)  Police Scotland (2) and MSP Jackie Baillie (JB) arrived before the end of the meeting. 

17 members of the community 

The meeting was chaired by vice-chairman Jim Morrison 


Apologies received from Neil MacGregor (NM/Sec)   

Declaration of interest 

The committee members confirmed that they had no interests in any matters on the agenda.  

Minutes of meeting on 5th November 2018 

The minutes of the previous meeting were proposed as accurate by AS and seconded by GM.  

Matters Arising and Associated issues   

Regarding the planning matter with the former public toilets, the owner of the land with the pathway has not been found by the normal registry searches. Cllr Sally Page is persisting in pursuing with WDC. WDC have been performing all the ground maintenance over the years so it has been assumed WDC would have been the owners but apparently not.

Following the last meeting (where the usefulness of the telephone box was highlighted), BT removed the telephone box entirely. JB investigated and discovered that the removal of the telephone box was done by BT due to an increase in ground rent demanded. A question was asked as to who BT paid the rent to as this may also be the owner of the land. KCC agreed to continue investigations with JB’s assistance if needed.  

Treasurers Report 

AS reported that recent expenditure consisted of further outlays for meeting room rental in Nov @ £18 and web site hosting @ £4.79 per month (Nov & Dec).

£200 was paid to the website developer for the construction of the website and £150 for annual maintenance and admin of the website.  

Balances : Main account : £840.78  Benevolent Fund : £618.21   

Planning Matters  

Building Warrants: 
There is an amended warrant from 2011:  BW/11/224/Warri/A  1 Blairquhamrie Cottages - amendment to warrant. Alterations to layout, openings and timber kit size 

Planning Applications
There were none for discussion. For reference, a list of applications since the last meeting is provided here and on the KCC website (  

  • 2018/0387/DET – Windy Park – erection of cattery and enclosure, siting of container, installation of private treatment plant and photovoltaic panels. 
  • 2018/0111/DET – Ardenvhor, Church Road, Gartocharn planning application refused 
  • 2018/0338/DET – Little Duncryne Farm – erection of dwelling house and garage 
  • 2018/0303/DET – change of use of public amenity space to garden ground at former public convenience, Church Road, Gartocharn. Application refused. 
  • 2018/0349/DET – Tigh Gael Duncryne Road, Gartocharn – Change of use from garage and erection of second floor extension to form dwelling house.

A question was asked regarding historic developments at Lagganbeg Caravan Park and the lack of neighbour notification and possible lack of planning permission for some of it. No references could be given so KCC were unable to comment specifically.  JM & GM responded explaining the neighbour notification process. DSP explained how to look up planning applications using the map search or using keyword such as Lagganbeg on the search page (link below). The questioner was advised to contact the NPA directly or via KCC secretary with more specifics if he would like us to facilitate a meeting with LLNP. 

Search for planning applications here :  

Kilmaronock Community Trust                   

KCT board met on 21st November. A joint meeting with KCC and KMHA to review the CAP status took place on 13th November attended by AS and GM on behalf of KCC.  

KCT Update.

• A productive joint meeting of village groups was held on 13 November to monitor and discuss progress on the current actions arising from the Community Action Plan.  The work on the football pitch has been paused for the winter. 70% of the work has been completed, but wet weather in the late autumn and some unforeseen drainage complications have extended the completion date. 

• Fibre to the Premises. KCT have still not received the costs information from Openreach that was promised before Christmas. When KCT have more to report, everyone who expressed an interest will be contacted directly and  KCT will update the Gartocharn Community Facebook page. 

• The KCT annual general meeting will be held at KMH on 20 February. It is hoped to have a presentation on the Openreach proposals.  
CAP Update

• AS & SP met with WDC and Sustrans regarding safety at the road crossing of NCN7 and A811. SP following up.

• Pavement – AS met with WDC roads department and presented the case. GM sent a letter to CEO of WDC, the reply restated that there was a lack of funds, despite being a Core Path, for the coming financial year but that some targeted parts of the pavement will be repaired. KCC will investigate the scope of those works and press for funding in the next fiscal year.

• Public toilet facility – no further progress and currently no more planned.  

National Park & Community Partnership Issues 

The Core Path consultation is ongoing. Hard copies of the survey were handed out. Maps were available for review to show where the newly proposed paths are located. 

Two new paths have been proposed for Gartocharn, WDC proposed making School Road a core path in order to link the NCN7/John Muir Way to the village (ref. ADD25). RSPB have proposed one within their land (ref. ADD26). 

Comments once again revolved around the precise purpose of designating a route as a core path reiterating that the pavement between Balloch and Gartocharn is a Core Path since 2008 and yet has fallen into dangerous state of repair and WDC confirmed there is no plan to improve it.  

In the case of ADD25 – School Road – no direct consultations with farmers has taken place. No additional safety measures are proposed to be taken as the mix of local traffic, agricultural access and visitors would be no more than already exists on the NCN7/JMW.

Residents and regular users of School Road are advised to respond to the survey as they see fit. 

Since WDC promoted ADD25 they ought to be reminded that they should be responsible for the core path that already exists along the A811. Suspicions were voiced that this addition would be a reason to renege on the maintenance of the path along the A811 as this could be seen as a (long) bypass. 

DSP commented that changing the colour of the road on a map is unlikely to increase the footfall on that road. 
ADD26 – RSPB – as they were not present it is not certain what benefit they see from being a core path as it is on private land. Core paths need to be accessible 24/7 which conflicts with opening times of the RSPB reserve.  

KCC agreed to submit a response expressing these observations. 

West Dunbartonshire Council                    

As mentioned in several places above, the restoration of the A811 pavement is high on the agenda. KCC will respond to the letter sent to us from Ronnie Dinnie asking for further information on the proposed works on the pavement close to the garden centre and in the village itself. 


Nothing other than already discussed.  


PC Dougie Taylor and PC McFarlane of Police Scotland attended and presented the crime figures. 

1 recorded crime – vehicle/traffic - hit and run involving car to car  Last week, speed guns were used in the village as part of the ongoing enforcement campaign. 

Kilmaronock Community Council - The only rural parish in West Dunbartonshire

PS were asked about delivery lorries blocking main roads for long periods e.g. concrete pouring during recent building works at the former public toilets on a Friday morning conflicting with farm shop and coffee morning traffic.  

PS were informed about suspicious activity of cars parked in back lanes - littering, drinking and smoking cannabis. Suspected drink or drugs offences should be reported at the time to give them a chance to deal with it as retrospectively there is not much that can be done. 

GM asked SP about her discussion within WDC concerning fly tipping and the Standards and Compliance officers. PS reported that another stop and search campaign was held on vans but nothing untoward was found and they were in discussion with WDC GM thanked them for their efforts. 

A village speed sign has rotated – needs to be reported and turned back the right way – KCC will advise WDC Roads.  

Next Meeting    

Next ordinary meeting will be on Monday 4th March 2019 at 7:30pm in Kilmaronock Millennium Hall. 
Meeting closed at 17:05

 Kilmaronock Community Council 
           The next ordinary meeting of Kilmaronock Community Council will be held in Kilmaronock Millennium Hall  on Monday 4 March 2019 at 7.30pm  
           Gavin MacLellan (Chair)  Email:  


  1. Sederunt 
  2. Apologies  
  3. Declaration of interest 
  4. Minutes of regular meeting on 7 January 2019 
  5. Matters Arising and Associated issues
  6. Treasurers Report 
  7. Planning Matters   National  Nature Reserve 
  8. Kilmaronock Community Trust 
  9. National Park & Community Partnership Issues
  10. West Dunbartonshire Council WDC Health & Social Care Partnership Strategic Plan 
  11. Correspondence
  12. AOCB
  13. Next Meeting   20 May 2019   preceded by KCC AGM

Abridged Minutes of Ordinary Meeting of KCC
Monday 4th March 2019 at 7.30pm
Kilmaronock Millennium Hall  


  • Committee : Neil MacGregor (NM/Sec. acting Chair), Andrew Sinnott (AS/Trs), David Scott-Park (DSP), Sarah Guy (SG) & Ivan Mavor (IM)
  • PC Gemma Sloan (Police Scotland), George Murphy (NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde Health Board), Councillor Sally Page and 14 members of the community  


  • Apologies received from Gavin MacLellan, Jim Morrison and MSP Jackie Baillie 

Declaration of interest

  • The committee members confirmed that they had no conflicts of interests in any matters on the agenda.  

Minutes of meeting on 7th January 2019 

  • The minutes of the previous meeting were proposed as accurate by DSP and seconded by SG  

Matters Arising and Associated issues

  • Regarding the planning matter with the former public toilets, the owner of the land with the pathway has still not been found. WDC seem to think they still own the land and the decision to sell was pending approval of the change of use. WDC state that they can sell off the land without consulting the community. 
  • KCC agreed to continue investigation in to the ownership of the land. KCC will follow up with BT to reinstall a public phone box due to the lack of mobile phone coverage. 

Treasurers Report

  • Current account balance : £831.20  Benevolent fund balance : £668.21 

Planning Matters

  • PSC/2018/0004 - RSPB – EIA screening complete
  • 2019/0007/DET - Garden Centre – discharge of section 75 – ongoing
  • 2018/0338/DET – Little Duncryne Farm – erection of dwelling house and garage - Approved
  • 2018/0349/DET – Former garage adjacent to Tigh Gael, Duncryne Road, Gartocharn – Change of use from garage and erection of second floor extension to form dwelling house – Approved
  • 2019/0045/DET - South Gartocharn Farm – Change of use of land and building to equestrian, and alterations to existing access (retrospective) – representations to be made by 2nd April
  • 2018/0375/DET - Gartenwall – Formation of temporary access track (retrospective) - approved
  • 2018/0303/DET – change of use of public amenity space to garden ground at former public convenience, Church Road, Gartocharn. Application refused. Decision upheld on appeal. KCC will monitor in case of elevation to judicial review.
  • Crudens who are developing housing at Dumbain are discussing preplanning for a phase 2. KCC to monitor. 
    National Nature Reserve After the previous KCC meeting on 7th January, a special meeting was held where SNH gave a presentation and had Q&A with the community. SNH highlighted their role in general within Scotland and more specifically our local NNR. They explained the designations, their meanings and the subsequent legislative protections. Minutes are on the KCC website.
  • 2016/0126/DET – The Wards development as discussed in the special meeting on 11th February The recent letter sent by KCC was reported to have appeared and disappeared from the LLTNPA planning portal. Dissatisfaction with the content of the letter was raised and further clarification of the intent of the letter was requested as it did not specifically state that the objection raised in the original letter still stood.   It was agreed that the recent letter will be reworked and posted on the KCC website regardless of it being posted on the planning portal.   

Kilmaronock Community Trust

The KCT AGM was held on 20th February. Sheila Cronin has stepped down as a director after many years of service. KCT thanked Sheila for all she has done for the community.   Ultrafast Broadband using Fibre to the Premises was discussed with Gordon Davidson of Openreach.  The number of premises willing to sign up for FTTP is insufficient given the overall Openreach quote and existing Voucher offer.  Work to complete the Football pitch will start again in the spring. We were partially successful in obtaining WDC Community Budgeting revenue funding for the play park. Thanks are due to the 135 people who came to the event or voted on-line for our bid.  

National Park & Community Partnership Issues

  • Nothing received recently but for interest, the March CP Newsletter is on their Facebook page.   

West Dunbartonshire Council 

Health and Social Care by George Murphy ( George provided some sobering statistics on health within WDC area versus Scotland in general. As the general population demographic shifts balance to older and older with poorer health outcomes the future of health care needs a new strategy. Managers, clinicians and planners are working together and are engaging with patients, service users and staff to develop plans for a better health and social care system for people. Public consultation meetings will be held on 13th March in the Alexandria Community Centre and 19th March in Clydebank Town Hall and there is a Survey Monkey online questionnaire open until 22nd March.

Community Transport

  • AS reported on the recent information and feedback sessions of the network/steering group for the development of community transport in West Dunbartonshire.
  • Scotrail have announced grant funding for community based schemes to improve rail connections.
    Fly-tipping Various instances reported to WDC. SG will report the recently tipped washing machine.    Roads Various road issues were raised which NM will report to the roads department.  


  • Nothing other than already discussed.  


  • Police Scotland were on hand to answer any questions. There were no crimes reported from 1st Feb to now. 
    A resident raised the issue of removal of trees around the entrance to the Wards. KCC were asked to look into this matter so will follow up and report back next meeting. 
  • Smartocharn – upcoming village litter pick on March 17th – contact Peter Page to sign up. So far, we have approx. 30 volunteers. WDC and Police Scotland are signed up to assist with equipment and road safety. KMHA are signed up to help with catering and use of car park. It would also be useful to send a note to Peter if there is a particular area of concern to be cleaned up.   

Next Meeting

  • Next ordinary meeting will be on Monday 20th May 2019 following the AGM at 7:30pm in KMH.

Kilmaronock Community Council 
Gavin MacLellan (Chair) : 
The next ordinary meeting of Kilmaronock Community Council will be held in 
Kilmaronock Millenium Hall on Monday 20 May 2019 at 7.30pm 


  1. Sederunt
  2. Apologies
  3. Declaration of interest
  4. Minutes of regular meeting on 4 March 2019
  5. Matters Arising and Associated issues
  6. Treasurers Report
  7. Planning Matters
    Proposal re land adjacent to the former public toilets, Church Road
  8. Kilmaronock Community Trust
  9. National Park & Community Partnership Issues
  10. West Dunbartonshire Council 
    Trusted Trader Scheme
    Brian McQuillan – Review of Community Councils and support provided 
    in 2019
  11. Correspondence
  12. AOB
  13. Next Meeting TBC at 2019 AGM

Annual General Meeting of KCC
7:30 pm 20th May 2019 
Kilmaronock Millenium Hall 


CC : Gavin MacLellan (GM), Jim Morrison (JM), Ivan Mavor (IM), Sarah Guy (SG), David Scott-Park (DSP) and Andrew Sinnott (AS)
Brian McQuillan – Community Empowerment Team WDC 
Willy Nesbit – LLTNP 
Plus 10 members of the local community  


Neil MacGregor 

Minutes of the AGM on 21 May 2019

The minutes were proposed as accurate by IM and seconded by AS. 

Chairman's report  

The year started with our first meeting in May 2018 and we had 6 full meetings in July, September, November, January, March and our AGM today. Considerable time has been allocated by a dedicated team of CCs.

Each meeting was attended by 5 or more Community Councillors and between 2 and 25 members of the public. We hold our meetings in public which enables open discussion and feedback before CCs make decisions. We also record our discussion and decisions in our Minutes of Meetings. Since we set up our own Website last summer, these Minutes along with any resulting communications are held for reference on the website. We trust the website now provides transparency and notices of all KCC activity. All meetings were held in Gartocharn except our meeting in November which was on Inchmurrin as part of an effort to take the meeting to all parts of the parish. 

KCC thank Police Scotland for either attending or offering reports to each meeting.

KCC thank LLNP for attendance - Gordon Watson in May and David Robinson in November. 

We responded to the Core Path consultation and our Councillors attended approximately 25 external events as listed in the Appendix.

In January we held a meeting with SNH on the subject of the Endrick Mouth Nature Reserve  (SSI and SAC). This was held after our normal business meeting. This was attended by Loch Lomond fisheries Trust, Loch Lomond Association Jackie Baillie MSP along with 13 members of the community. The attendance demonstrated the interest in this natural asset by our community.  

A special meeting was held on 11 Feb to discuss the revisions to Planning Application 2016/0126

I draw attention to a few notable activities and achievements during the year:

  • Raising the awareness in the Community of the conservation and management issues pertaining to the Endrick Mouth National Nature Reserve
  • Establishment of a dedicated website that gives access to all notices, transparency, meeting records and relevant CC documents with no access restrictions.
  • Supporting the WW1 commemoration on 11 Nov. 

The KCC is a voluntary organisation and we operate in accordance with procedures established by WDC. We are all busy people but find the time to represent Kilmaronock as best we can. This takes considerable time and diligence and I wish to thank all colleagues who have contributed to the operation and maintaining our high standards of compliance. I also thank all the participants in our meetings without which our knowledge would be less.  The above activities, discussion and debate enable feedback to WDC and the NP. I would particularly thank Neil MacGregor our Secretary for the managing our formal communications and Andy Sinnott for very smoothly taking on the job of Treasurer and minute taking.

Lastly, I also wish to record that we have completed our affairs in accordance with the West Dunbartonshire Council procedures for Community Councils and Minutes for all our meetings are available on our website.

Treasurers Report

The treasurer reported on the 2 accounts held by KCC. Fiscal Year (FY) ran from 1st March 2018 to 28th February 2019.
The main account having a closing balance of £851.70
The Benevolent Fund having a closing balance of £668.21
Copies of the audited and signed accounts are appended to these minutes.
Report proposed by GM and seconded by JM

Secretary's report

The secretary was absent tonight. 

Election of Office Bearers

The office bearers remain as :
Chair : Gavin McLellan
Vice chair : Jim Morrison
Secretary : Neil MacGregor
Treasurer : Andrew Sinnott 

Appointment of representatives

Andrew Sinnott agreed to continue as the KCC representative towards Kilmaronock Community Trust 

Appointment of independent examiner

David S. Taylor is re-nominated for this position pending his acceptance. GM to follow up. 


GM confirmed that new CC elections are due in 2020. Normally around March. 

Date of next AGM

Monday 18th May 2020 @ 7:30 pm 

Programme for forthcoming general meetings

  • 1st July 2019
  • 2nd September 2019
  • 4th November 2019
  • 6th January 2020
  • 2nd March 2020
  • 18th May 2020

Appendix 1

Meetings and Events attended :
Community Council Forum

  • 14/06/18 AGM & General meeting, Riverside Church Hall, Dumbarton
  • 18/10/18 General meeting Riverside Church Hall, Dumbarton
  • 17/01/19 General meeting WDC Church St, Dumbarton   

WDC Development Events  

  • 24/10/18 Consultation on WDC Local Plan 2, Alexandria Community Centre 
  • 27/10/18 Development Planning training workshop,  Clydebank Town Hall
  • 22/01/19 Community Transport #1 of 3 – Steering group workshop, Vale of Leven Academy
  • 28/01/19 Making Things Happen (Community Empowerment Act) – Consultation workshops, Alexandria Community Centre
  • 16/02/19 CC Roles & Responsibilities – training workshop CVS offices, Clydebank
  • 23/02/19 Participatory Budgeting Phase IV – Voting event, Clydebank Town Hall
  • 26/02/19 Community Transport #2 of 3, Concord Centre, Dumbarton
  • 26/03/19 Community Transport #3 of 3, Clydebank Town Hall   

Consultation Events  

  • 28/06/18 LLTNPA Trees & Woodland Strategy Workshop, Carrochan Rd, Balloch
  • 07/12/18 Kilmaronock Old Kirk Trust – stakeholders consultation KMH
  • 17/01/19 Core Path Drop in @ LLTNPA, Carrochan Rd, Balloch
  • 09/04/19 Healthcare in Vale of Leven, Concord Centre, Dumbarton   

Other KCC meetings  

  • 23/05/18 Joint community group meeting on CAP KMH
  • 25/09/18 Roads Group meeting with WDC and Sally Page WDC, Church St, Dumbarton
  • 13/11/18 Joint community group meeting on CAP KMH
  • 01/02/19 LLTNPA Planning Dept (Wards Update) Carrochan Rd, Balloch
  • 03/05/19 LLTNPA Conservation and Tourism Dept (NNR Update) Carrochan Rd, Balloch

KCC sponsored events  

  • 11/11/18 Battle’s O’er KMH
  • 17/03/19 Smartocharn KMH   


  • 01/06/18 WD Fairtrade Group WDC, Bridge St, Dumbarton
  • 19/06/18 B&HCC Public meeting on Flamingo Land Alexandria Parish Church, Balloch
  • 18/01/19 Community Partnership - Crowdfunding Workshop Forth Valley Leader Offices, Stirling
  • 11/05/19 Planning Democracy Workshops Trades Hall, Glasgow  

Appendix 2

Report on Annual Accounts for Fiscal Year 2018-2019  


The Fiscal Year (FY) ran from 1st March 2018 to 28th February 2019.

KCC hold two accounts, the first of which is the main account which is the official business account of the KCC. The second account is the KCC Benevolent Fund which is the modern incarnation of the Kilmaronock Poor Fund (see Appendix 2). 
During the Fiscal Year, the office of Treasurer was borne by Andrew Sinnott. 

The account signatories are Andrew Sinnott, Neil MacGregor & Ivan Mavor.   

Explanation of Expenditure 

  • Rental of Meeting rooms in KMH : £136.50 
  • Walkway Insurance : £71.58 (pro-rated for this FY) 
    Comment : Due to adoption of the walkway, it has been confirmed that KCC are no longer required to take out insurance going forward.  
  • Website : £335.40 (pro-rated for this FY) 
    Comment : This is the first year of the website so costs included development (£200.00), annual maintenance (£150.00) and hosting (£49.90). The maintenance split over the change of FY
  • Expenses : £108.71. Comment : An expense compensation scheme had replaced the flat rate honorarium.   

The account ran a deficit of -£19.58 primarily due to additional room rentals required for special meetings. 
Examination of Accounts The accounts below were examined and approved by David S. Taylor and are presented tonight.   
Andrew Sinnott KCC Treasurer       
Audited Accounts    

Appendix 1 – Cashbook Record 

Expenditure Cash Book - Year to 28 February 2018      

Date issued and Narrative Cheque Amount

  • 06/04/2018 KMH hire - KCC meeting 6th January & 8th March 217 £27.00
  • 24/05/2018 1&1 INTERNET LTD.V70826806-92214040 DD £4.79
  • 21/06/2018 KMH hire - KCC meeting May 218 £18.00
  • 22/06/2018 1&1 INTERNET LTD.V70826806-92214040 DD £4.79
  • 16/07/2018 APRS Annual Subscription 219 £30.00
  • 24/07/2018 1&1 INTERNET LTD.V70826806-92214040 DD £4.79
  • 17/08/2018 KMH hire - KCC meeting July 220 £13.50
  • 20/08/2018 1&1 INTERNET LTD.V70826806-92214040 DD £4.79
  • 03/09/2018 Inchmurrin Island Co hire - KCC meeting Sept 221 £18.00
  • 19/09/2018 1&1 INTERNET LTD.V70826806-92214040 DD £4.79
  • 19/10/2018 1&1 INTERNET LTD.V70826806-92214040 DD £4.79
  • 05/11/2018 Secretary Expense Claim 222 £108.71
  • 13/11/2018 Elizabeth McQuillan - Web development BACS £350.00
  • 21/11/2018 1&1 INTERNET LTD.V70826806-92214040 DD £4.79
  • 12/12/2018 KMH hire - KCC meeting November 223 £18.00
  • 21/12/2018 1&1 INTERNET LTD.V70826806-92214040 DD £4.79
  • 23/01/2019 1&1 INTERNET LTD.V70826806-92214040 DD £4.79
  • 21/02/2019 1&1 INTERNET LTD.V70826806-92214040 DD £4.79
  • 23/02/2019 KMH hire - KCC double meeting January 224 £22.50  KMH hire - KCC special meeting February 225 £19.50

Total - £673.11   

*Association for the Protection of Rural Scotland (  
Appendix 2 – The KCC Benevolent Fund  
Benevolent Fund: year to 28 February 2019       

  • Opening Bank Balance at 1/3/2018 £818.21   
  • Repayment to KCC account for C. Burn memorial £50.00
  • Payment to KMHA for Remembrance Day £100.00    

Closing Bank Balance at 28/2/2019 - £668.21  

 Kilmaronock Community Council 
           Gavin MacLellan (Chair)  : 
           The next ordinary meeting of Kilmaronock Community Council will  be held in Kilmaronock Millenium Hall  on Monday 1 July 2019 at 7.30pm   


  1. Sederunt
  2. Apologies 
  3. Declaration of interest
  4. Minutes of regular meeting on 20 May 2019
  5. Matters Arising and Associated issues
  6. Treasurers Report 
  7. Planning Matters Public amenity land, old toilet block, Church Road 
  8. Kilmaronock Community Trust 
  9. National Park & Community Partnership Issues   
  10. West Dunbartonshire Council 
  11. Correspondence
  12. AOCB
  13. Next Meeting   2 September 2019 

Ordinary Meeting of KCC
Monday 1st July 2019 at 7.30pm
Kilmaronock Millennium Hall  


Committee: Gavin MacLellan (GM/Chair), Jim Morrison (JM/Vice-chair), Andrew Sinnott (AS/Trs), David Scott-Park (DSP)  Cllr Sally Page  Elaine Ellen – Kilmaronock Community Trust Plus 21 members of the community 


Sarah Guy and Ivan Mavor  

Declaration of interest

No declarations regarding tonight’s agenda. 

Minutes of regular meeting on 4 March 2019

Proposed as accurate by JM, seconded by GM. 

Matters Arising and Associated issues   

Hard copies of previous minutes and tonight’s agenda were not available. For future meetings, the hall’s photocopier will be available as long as we provide the necessary paper.  KCC (AS) will bring the necessary items next meeting and post a hard-copy in the hall when minutes are available. 

Treasurers Report

The annual administration grant from WDC has been paid into our account. The same amount as last year £662.61. Current account balance : £1344.31.  Benevolent fund balance : £668.21  After a discount during our first year of website, the monthly hosting fee has been bumped up from £4.79 to £8.39 The next website admin bill is due in August. This is the ideal time to review the service and decide whether we continue as is or take control ourselves. KCC to have a review of the website as it has been in operation for a full year now.  

Planning Matters 

  • 2019/0127/PPP – Blairlusk Farm : Erection of dwelling house – No comments from KCC 
  • 2019/0154/DET – Windy Park, Gartocharn : Erection of cattery, container, lean-to building and enclosures, installation of new private treatment plant and photovoltaic panels. Retrospective permission sought for gated access track from car park hardstanding and site of container – Personal permission only granted which has prevented funding of the project – KCC have written to Planning Authority for an explanation (letter published on LLTNPA Planning Portal).  
    A building warrant has been granted for a sun room at Aber Mill. 
  • 2016/0126/DET – Wards Estate – Planning Authority committee met last Tuesday and refused the application. 
    Claddoch Cottages – expect a new application shortly so if you wish then look out for neighbour notification.  
  • 2017/0087/DET – Arisaig Farm - Retention of: alterations and extensions to shed, CHP (Combined Heat and Power) building, access track and hard standing (development already carried out); and erection of car port
  • 2016/0013/ENF 2015/0191/DET Members of the community have approached KCC with concerns over the quasi-industrial activity and the confusion over planning applications and enforcements at Arisaig Farm. The applicant was present and suggested that his son will make a presentation at the next KCC meeting to clarify the situation. KCC will collate community comments and allow time on the agenda for the next meeting. KCC (DSP) will contact LLTNPA planning team for an update on the history and status of the various planning applications and collate community concerns with planning matters and operational activities. GM to add item to next agenda.  

Lomond Banks aka Flamingo Land

Several members of KCC attended the meeting in Alexandria Parish Church organised by Save Loch Lomond. Over 265 people attended and the event live streamed. Two days later, WDC met and after a short debate, unilaterally accepted a motion to object to the development.  We don’t have a date for the Planning committee meeting, our representative on the NP board, Mr. Nisbet was not in attendance tonight. It was also noted that he has declared an interest in the project therefore cannot vote or apparently even attend meetings to discuss the matter. Another party said Mr Nisbet claims he was told by the Park Authority not to engage in meetings or discussions about this matter. This leaves us with a lack of representation which ought to be addressed. This matter needs more clarity around representation as well as what constitutes an “interest”. DSP suggested writing to Mr. Nisbet for further explanation.  KCC suggests that individuals write to Mr. Nisbet with their concerns over this development and Mr Nisbet’s lack of representation of affairs. 

Proposal re land adjacent to the former public toilets, Church Road  

Despite having agreed to meet tonight, the applicants did not show up to discuss their plans to revise their application. They have been advised by their agent to wait until the full application is ready, we disagreed with that approach and recommended to bring the ideas forward for discussion with those most affected as the best way to gain agreement to proceed.   

A question was raised about asset transfers and the council not informing the local community. No direct communication has taken place between the council and the CC but the applicant had reported that the land would only be sold if the CC approved. It was suggested that we establish the fact that no sale will take place without CC approval and if not the case then as a community we could look to have the asset transferred at zero cost.  KCC (GM) will follow up with Cllr Page on the issue of the asset transfer and the council responsibilities to consult with the community.   KCC (GM) will write to LLTNPA planning team to ensure neighbour notifications are sent out when the new planning application is submitted. 

Dissatisfaction was expressed with the way the construction traffic and parking of contractors and suppliers affects daily access to Church Rd particularly pedestrians who are blocked and forced into the road. Parking on the pavement and too close to the junction with the A811. KCC advised anyone affected to contact 101 and report it, the more complaints the more likely it is to be policed.  Also, the lay-by is being used for contractor parking, preventing local use and causing inconvenience for deliveries and access to day-care bus for disabled residents.  
A811 Layby - JM suggested we look into extending the lay-by to specifically cater for disabled access e.g. a dedicated pick up and drop off for day-care bus. This could be considered for the next Community Action Plan. KCC (AS) to follow up during consultations for the next CAP                 

Kilmaronock Community Trust    

AS and Elaine Ellen (EE) of KCT gave a report on the latest KCT activities : Community Broadband. The new Rural Community Broadband scheme means we can now claim an increased contribution to the costs and together with a reduced initial quote from Openreach based on only the Gartocharn exchange numbers means that we think this is now a viable project. We will submit the final list of properties to be included this week for final Openreach quote. 

Football pitch. The drainage and earthworks are complete and grass seed sown so this project is now almost complete.  
EE gave a more detailed explanation on the community broadband initiative and was thanked for the work done on behalf of everyone.

National Park and Community Partnership Issues

Nothing other than already discussed regarding lack of local representation. RSPB are due to publish their 5 year management plan and will send a copy to us when it is ready. 

West Dunbartonshire Council  

Cllr Page reported on;

  • Book Festival (Booked!) held in May, – very successful and inspirational to school ages in particular.
  • Gaelic Implementation Plan – Dual language signs and meetings questioned over need and cost. This is funded directly from Scot Gov so money is not coming from council budget as such. 
  • A811 pavement – GM has arranged a meeting with AS, Derek Barr and Gail MacFarlane of WDC Roads department on 16th July. A question was raised about the speed of traffic on the back roads – lots of walkers and cyclists are directed down these roads due to NCN7, John Muir Way and new Core Path route. We can ask police but more likely they don’t have the resources, secondly we can request additional signage. “Quiet Roads” signage becoming more common now. KCC (GM & AS) to bring it up with WDC Roads on 16th July.                           


No Police report or police representation tonight to answer questions. Last meeting, we had none either. There have been a recent spate of house breaking which would have been worth a comment. Disappointment expressed at lack of police presence.  KCC to ask for Police Scotland to attend next meeting and provide crime statistics for period since last meeting. 

Scottish Ambulance Service sent us a 6 page document to read out. Instead we will post it in KMH and on our website. KCC (AS) to follow up when producing the minutes of this meeting and post both in KMH.  


Drainage problems reported. Exact locations and ideally pictures would assist in notifying the council. 

Core Path issue. Aber Path is impossible to access due to overgrown weeds and grass.  KCC to inform LLTNPA Access Officer Dave Robinson.   

Bottle banks - The bottle banks at the Garden Centre have been put back in place. Note they never left, just covered for aesthetics! 

Removal of non-native invasive species. Peter Page raised awareness of Himalayan Balsam which is soon about to flower. Efforts to organise a removal gang of volunteers have been hampered by the holiday season. Therefore, if people could identify areas of dense growth and or remove and destroy (compost) avoiding seed dispersal.   

Next Meeting  

2nd September 2019 at 19:30 in KMH 

Kilmaronock Community Council 
Gavin MacLellan (Chair)  : 
           The next ordinary meeting of Kilmaronock Community Council will be held in 
           Kilmaronock Millennium Hall on Monday 2 September 2019 at 7.30pm  


            1)    Sederunt 
            2)    Apologies 
            3)    Declaration of interest 
            4)    Minutes of regular meeting on 1 July 2019 
            5)    Matters Arising and Associated issues                    
            6)    Treasurers Report 
            7)    Planning Matters 
            8)    Kilmaronock Community Trust                    
            9)    National Park & Community Partnership Issues                    
           10)   West Dunbartonshire Council                           
           11)   Correspondence    

Ordinary Meeting of KCC
Monday 2nd September 2019 at 7.30pm
Kilmaronock Millennium Hall  

Sederunt Committee

Gavin MacLellan (GM/Chair), Jim Morrison (JM/Vice-chair), Andrew Sinnott (AS/Trs), David Scott-Park (DSP), Sarah Guy (SG) and Ivan Mavor (IM)  Cllr Sally Page (SP) Elaine Ellen (EE) – Kilmaronock Community Trust Jan Shields (JS) – Balloch and Haldane Community Council Plus 38 other members of the community 
GM welcomed all to the meeting and started with thanks to the organisers of the very successful Village Show last weekend and noted the village garden looking good thanking Catherine Newall for the fantastic job done there. Appreciation was shown for Neil MacGregor who recently stepped down after several years as KCC secretary. Bob Balmer has been co-opted to take over some of the secretarial duties including management and further development of the KCC website ( GM also highlighted some recent sub-standard conduct at meetings and reminded everyone of the importance of meeting etiquette. Criticism and differences are welcome but in the right manner. 


None received

Declaration of interest

JM will excuse himself if the planning matter at The Wards comes up for discussion. 

Minutes of regular meeting on 1st July 2019

Proposed as accurate by DSP, seconded by JM.

Matters Arising and Associated issues

Lomond Banks aka Flamingo Land – Public meeting will be held in Alexandria Parish Church on 24th September. No time announced as yet. GM attempted, unsuccessfully, to get a business plan from Scottish Enterprise. 
Other matters arising as per agenda below 

Treasurers Report

Outgoings since the last meeting were the membership fee of £30 for the Association for the Preservation of Rural Scotland and £13.50 for the hire of the hall for the last meeting. Current account balance : £1284.05  Benevolent fund balance : £668.21 

Planning Matters

GM - KCC actively seeks contributions to the agenda via our secretary email address. The basic agenda appears on both the KCC & WDC website and on display in the hall when possible and there is normally little or no response. As a statutory consultee on planning applications it is in everyone’s best interest for any applicant to contact KCC and discuss their plans direct or arrange a slot on the agenda to address a KCC meeting.  

Recent notifications 2019/0184/DET – Former Public Toilet : Change of use of public amenity space to garden ground. The previous plan was refused and the feedback from that was taken to form a modified plan for re-submission.  The plan was displayed in large format for all to see and the applicant was present to discuss the new plan. Road safety at Church Road was the main concern as the new path exits on to Church Rd nearer the A811 than before. There is no pavement on that side of Church Road and the narrow road and sharp turn from A811 often causes traffic to swing out at that point. The existing wall has been hit several times as a result. The applicant has already offered to relay the path and slope it such as to remove the step down into the road. Additional measures suggested by KCC were to : • Lower kerb and have footpath sloping to allow wheelchair access to road together with pedestrian access • Relocate the existing wall 2m further away from the carriageway  to allow a 2m verge between the existing wall and the road  • Restrict the height of any hedge within 2m of the road to 0.6m to allow wheelchair users to see traffic • Applicant to provide KCC with evidence that WDC will allow this to be done and will maintain it upon completion. It is recognised that the wall is on WDC property but then so is the path.  WDC will only sell the land to the applicant if KCC approve of said sale. KCC will approve the sale according to the above 4 conditions upon receipt of a drawing showing the above variations. There were very good detailed discussions on the options above plus adding pavements and widening the road entrance but it was thought that they were out-with the applicant’s control but could be taken up with WDC in future after the wall is moved and we see how the new path works out for all.  GM asked all if there were any objections to this solution or was there an outright objection the preferred option. Since there were no objections the above proposal was accepted by the meeting. 

2019/0182/DET – Robin House : Extension of car park; repositioning of garden depot with associated drainage; installation of welfare container; creation of storage bunkers. Decision to APPROVE by Planning Authority. No comments from KCC 

2019/0168/DET – Lomond Garden Centre : Further application (under section 42) for planning permission for the development of land (use of buildings) without complying with conditions 4, 5 and 6 attached to planning permission 2002/0101/NKN. No comments from KCC 

Update from last meeting 2017/0087/DET – Arisaig Farm : Retention of: alterations and extensions to shed, CHP (Combined Heat and Power) building, access track and hard-standing (development already carried out); and erection of car port and poly-tunnels – Decision to REFUSE by Planning Authority. KCC have written to the director of Planning with concerns for clarification but have not had a reply. Representatives for the applicant were due to make a presentation on the history behind the application 2017/0087/DET but in light of the refusal decision gave a shorter version. Their feeling is that there have been several changes of planning officer and each change has brought different requirements and that now the Planning Authority are rolling back the initial permissions.  They have not yet made a decision on appealing but offered to host a site visit for KCC to see the operation firsthand. DSP & JM would like to take them up on the offer of a site visit. Apart from the scale of the business being performed the main issue of community concern is the access to and from the farm track straight on to the A811.  A discussion on addressing the road safety concerns of all A811 users – the safety of the A811 entrance is of general concern. SP has discussed options with WDC roads dept. - they will not reduce the speed limit but will consider signage telling people to slow down and indicating a T-junction. DSP suggested construction of a bell-mouth entrance but applicants dispute need for that citing other examples of similar junctions and traffic in the area. Either way, there is an improvement needed. KCC (DSP & JM) to visit Arisaig Farm on a fact finding mission. Post-meeting addendum KCC were invited to a site visit to the neighbours at Ardoch. JM will attend.  

JM started a discussion on the consistency of process in the Planning Authority and the lack of responses to direct requests for information.  GM - Unlike elected local councillors who represent their constituency within the council, the elected park board member does not represent the electorate in the same manner and has no such representative remit. Considerable investment has been made by certain investors resulting in Refusal which is  a waste of money and indicates lack of clear guidance. This often leaves KCC in an impossible position and leads to some of the frustrations that getting taken out in this room. It was agreed that KCC would write to the Reporter asking for a review of the Planning Authority procedures. There was general support for this from the floor with a show of hands revealing 26 in favour. All confirmed as residents or landowners of Kilmaronock. 

AS mentioned that there have been calls for planning responsibility to revert to Local Authorities i.e. councils not the Park. General support for this was expressed. There is a group called Planning Democracy who campaign for reform of planning. 

KCC (JM) to draft a letter to the Reporter 

GM asked for those with specific examples of poor performance of the Planning Authority to submit them to KCC. 
Older Extant Applications 2019/0127/PPP – Blairlusk Farm : Erection of dwelling house – No comments from KCC 2018/0213/DET – Third Farm : Proposed alterations to farm outbuildings to form two dwelling houses and erection of associated garages and septic tank (renewal of Planning Permission ref. 2015/0242/DET) - No comments from KCC 
Other 2019/0175/DET – Dumbain Road, Balloch : 44 unit affordable housing development (comprising 20 houses & 24 flats), access road and associated infrastructure The development in Dumbain Rd, Balloch is within KCC area. JS from BHCC sought to make KCC aware of local residents’ issues with the project. Due to time pressures the issues were not raised tonight so AS volunteered to attend the upcoming BHCC meeting on Wed 4th September at 10:00 in Carrochan Rd (National Park HQ). AS attended the BHCC meeting in March when the developers gave an outline presentation of the original scheme. Issues include being out-with the Balloch village envelope, being a green field agricultural site and the potential for further green field creep along with additional pressure on local infrastructure. Current residents have safety concerns with another junction for entrance into the new scheme.  KCC (AS) to attend BHCC meeting and report back to KCC  

The four McKenzie farm applications were refused and there were concerns on the onerous level of detail required by the Planning Authority (PA). GM clarified that the KCC letter to the PA did not state any objection but wanted some further information along the lines required by the planning officer (not to a cumbersome level of detail however).  The applicants plan to appeal so it will come before us again. GM asked for the former applicant to highlight any concerns over their dealings with the PA and forward to KCC and this application will be referenced in the pending letter to the Reporter. 

There was a discussion on the planning portal document contents. Not all submissions are loaded. Some are loaded then disappear. It is noted that after an application has been decided that usually only the application and the decision remain accessible to the public. It seems that certain applications are removed also. DSP reported that the application 2015/0191/DET (Arisaig) has been removed. We should clarify what the rules are on archiving content. This inconsistency will be included in the letter to the Reporter. 

GM reiterated that we can only investigate specific issues so if anyone has examples with reference numbers of cases where the documentation is missing when it shouldn’t be then please send them to KCC ( We will report back on what we receive.  

New notification 2016/0126/DET – Wards Estate – Notification of appeal against the refusal decision was received shortly before our meeting began. As consultee KCC have 14 days to respond. A separate meeting of KCC will be required to discuss this and decide on the response. There are no changes to the plans as part of this appeal so no changes to KCC position however the recent letter representing community concerns went unanswered so this will be followed up.  GM to arrange an internal meeting of KCC only to review the appeal document – the CC letter to the Planning Authority remains unanswered.  

Kilmaronock Community Trust

AS and Elaine Ellen (EE) of KCT gave a report on the latest KCT activities : 1. Football pitch and playground. The football pitch levelling and draining is now complete and the new grass has had its first cut. The playground equipment moved from the old Haldane school is now installed and Alan McMullan expects to install the additional new playground items - funded by the B Flats and KCT (via a legacy from Susan Coker) - very soon.  2. Fibre to the Premises. BT Openreach have still not provided a final quote, citing a backlog of applications as the reason for delay. This is being chased on a frequent basis and will be escalated this week if necessary. KCT are in the process of establishing the legal arrangements for us to make a contractual agreement with Openreach and we are still hopeful that we will be able to go ahead with this project in the near future.

EE explained in greater detail the application process and answered questions on the above. 3. KCT have been awarded a grant of £350 from Shell UK which will go towards our general running costs including legal costs for FTTP.  4. Paths and Access. KCT have made contact with landowners and the National Park regarding maintenance and repairs to both Dumpling and Aber paths but do not yet have funding or agreement to take these works forward. KCT have written to the National Park objecting to the proposed re-routing of the Core Path and changes to the public open space at the front of the former Public Convenience.

National Park and Community Partnership Issues

Core Path consultation – ADD26 School Road and ADD25 East of Village:  GM has received objections from Ardgate Farm, Simmers at West lodge and Taylors at Auchenlarich. Argate Farm is working dairy farm and uses the road every day for stock and vehicles and felt that any indication of a “Route” was not practical. They also noted they had not been consulted during the consultation by the NP. The KCC comments to the NP Consultation remain the same and will be responded to the NP and raised to the Reporter for decision. KCC to respond to NP. 

Aber Path – Both KCC and KCT have made representations to the Access Officer within the NP but nothing has been done and its condition is getting worse. KCC to follow up with the access officer in writing 

Core Paths in general were discussed but no one really sees the point of them other than they are now required by law. There are no funds to enforce maintenance so they deteriorate beyond safe or enjoyable use. 

NNR Management  KCC had a meeting with LLTNPA, SNH and RSPB to share our concerns and gain a perspective on their longer term plans for the National Nature Reserve in respect of balancing conservation with tourism.  KCC had reflected concerns earlier to the NP: • LLTNP priorities – serious concern that the environmental remit has been subsumed by remits for social, economic and tourism policy. This has led to a lack of trust in the LLTNP planning authority • Effectiveness of the SNH as the senior consultative body for planning advice • A lack of a holistic plan for the RSPB NNR that focusses on its unique properties • Proposed path/path network to the loch side – a plan more likely to encourage tourism in general rather than enhancing the experience for visitors to a highly valuable NNR with unique and potentially fragile properties 

• The Management Plans for the LLNP and SNH responsible areas are available but the RSPB Management plan is not available for an unknow reason. 
With consideration the above the NP chaired a meeting to satisfy these KCC concerns.The RSPB had recently published a review of the last 5 years of operation and a regulatory management plan for the next 5 years which formed the basis of discussions. We discussed the roles of NP & SNH in turn and then had a presentation from Dave Beaumont of RSPB covering both the review and the management plan. We discussed the upcoming plans for path networks and had reassurances around the management, maintenance and monitoring of use of the paths. We were advised the visions around visitor numbers in terms of facilities to be provided – the Plan indicates 8,000 per year. As a result of seeing the more holistic plans and the more realistic visitor numbers expected, we feel more comfortable than we had with the concepts being discussed previously but wished to reflect this to a wider community membership.  We agreed a similar meeting for the community would be the way forward – either combinations of all 3 bodies above or just RSPB. KCC wold discuss the options and attendees at their next CC meeting. CC’s then expressed their points taken from the meeting :  AS – outlined some practicalities & timetable for gathering community input for RSPB to build in to their community presentation.  SG – really positive meeting – commitment from all sides to re-establish trust –deeply reassured on RSPB commitments to ongoing impact assessments of their activities  DSP – agreed and added that in discussing the community concerns about visitor numbers of 40,000 the RSPB clearly don’t have the money to cater for that and so it would start smaller and work up incrementally assessing impacts accordingly. They have demonstrated management of high visitor numbers at other sensitive sites at Isle of May and Loch Leven and have shut down paths as necessary if warranted.  JM – re-iterated that RSPB don’t have the money as yet to do what they would like to do.  GM – questioned the level of NP due diligence activity concerning the process of independently verifying RSPB management plans as they would of any other developer.  Opened to the floor :  Maintenance issues raised - broken gates – training of volunteers It was pointed out that the volunteers work extremely hard under supervision of wardens.   RSPB soon to submit planning application for two new paths so will likely attend next KCC meeting anyway so could combine that with the presentation described above.  With respect to the proposed presentation to the Community a discussion took place and it was felt that NP, SNH & RSPB should be invited together to address an agenda that would be compiled beforehand. SP – suggests a completely independent review of the NNR’s plans.

GM summarised that the proposal then is to ask NP, SNH & RSPB to come along to a meeting to discuss the planning application for paths (once submitted) and the 5 yr plan.

  • The agenda will be restricted to those matters based on presentable facts. 
  • Anyone wishing an item to be placed on the agenda please forward it within the next couple of weeks.
  • Items must be evidence based i.e. backed up by documented facts.
  • The aim of the meeting is to be positive and solution orientated with KCC working with these other bodies to benefit the NNR and facilitate communication with the community on the outcomes.
  • Good conduct at meetings is mandatory and will lead to better engagement short and long term.

A request was made to seek out the report from the 2005 SNH neighbourhood consultation on paths through the NNR (before Aber and Shore paths were created) and add that to the agenda for the suggested meeting. Some of those paths have been abandoned while new ones are planned and this would be an opportunity to explore this. 

West Dunbartonshire Council

A811 pavement GM & AS had a successful meeting with WDC Roads dept in which the following points were noted :

  • An internal inspection of the full length of the pavement (Balloch to Gartocharn) will be done this fiscal year (FY).
  • The pavement in the village is being worked upon now. The section from Reid & Robertson to the garden centre is also planned.
  • Signage all along A811 (within WDC boundary) has been surveyed and redesigned. An order for new signs has been placed so expected to be installed this fiscal year (by end March).
  • The crossing at Reid and Robertson is not yet approved by higher level in WDC. This is not just about signs but also lighting, sight lines and a lowering of the speed limit.
  • Aiming to meeting again in October/November. 

Quiet roads At the same meeting as above, we introduced the roads team to the “Quiet roads” initiative as requested last KCC meeting. The concept of quiet roads was discussed in relation to the promotion of the local back roads (C class) for walking and cycling - John Muir Way and National Cycle Network Route 7. Examples from West Lothian region’s scheme were left with them for internal discussion and we will see if they have any thoughts when we next meet.

General Cllr Page thanked Elaine Ellen for the hard work on the broadband project.  We have a new police liaison officer – PC Andrew Barren who hopes to wield a speed gun a bit more often in the village.   Met with Roads dept regarding traffic calming in the village but this will not be implemented. 

Balloch Park Buddies are looking for some new members – the aim is to get together to make more of Balloch Park and make it a better place   


Crime statistics for period 01/07/19- 29/08/2019 are appended to the minutes and summarised here : Activity - 6 crimes reported  Trend - Increase in thefts by housebreaking Actions – (i) Speed safety campaign. (ii) High visibility patrols within the area during early evening and hours of darkness. 
Letter received from Police Scotland regarding Youth volunteers. 


GM – KCC would welcome youth engagement. There are opportunities to get involved with CC work and would be a nice addition to any young person’s CV. Don’t have to be a community councillor. If you know anyone, have them get in touch. 

Next Meeting 

4th November 2019 at 19:30 in KMH  Please send in any agenda items in good time to 

Ordinary Meeting of KCC
Monday 4th November 2019 at 7.30pm
Kilmaronock Millennium Hall  

Sederunt Committee

Gavin MacLellan (GM/Chair), Jim Morrison (JM/Vice-chair), Andrew Sinnott (AS/Trs), Sarah Guy (SG) and Ivan Mavor (IM)  Cllr Sally Page (SP) Plus 13 members of the community


David Scott-Park  

Declaration of interest


Minutes of regular meeting

on 1st July 2019 Approved by IM, seconded by SG. 

Matters Arising and Associated issues

At the last meeting it was suggested to draft a letter to the Scottish Government reporter regarding concerns with the planning process and the number of appeals, some of which KCC are taking a closer look at to better understand the background.  An unauthorised letter was sent in error to the Director of Planning Appeals and has subsequently been retracted since it was project specific. This matter remains ongoing and is not concluded. 
Other matters arising as per agenda tonight. 

Treasurers Report

Outgoings since the last meeting were £13.50 for the hire of the hall for the last meeting and £8.39 x 2 for monthly web hosting fees. Current account balance : £1253.77  Benevolent fund balance : £668.21  After a discussion on the replacement of defibrillator pads it was proposed to continue to use the benevolent fund for now.  
 AS to purchase the pads and liaise with KMHA to get them installed. 

Planning Matters

KCC actively seeks contributions to the agenda via our secretary email address. The basic agenda appears on both the KCC & WDC website and on display in the hall when possible and there is normally little or no response. As a statutory consultee on planning applications it best interest for any applicant to contact KCC and discuss their plans direct or arrange a slot on the agenda to address a KCC meeting.  

Recent notifications 2019/0233/75A - Limepark, Church Road, Gartocharn - Application to discharge a planning obligation related to planning permission (86/011/PP/W (LL.2218)) in order to remove a local occupancy restriction 2019/0251/DET – Limepark, Church Road, Gartocharn - Further application (under section 42) for planning permission for the development of land (use of buildings) without complying with condition 3 (restricting occupancy) attached to planning permission ref: 86/011/PP/W (LL2218) KCC have no objections to these applications

Update from last meeting 2019/0184/DET – Former Public Toilet : Change of use of public amenity space to garden ground. The Applicant has revised and submitted plans as agreed at the previous KCC meeting 2nd Sept 2019. A final check will be made and our approval will be advised to the Authority.  

2017/0087/DET – Arisaig Farm  A site visit was undertaken by three community councillors (GM, IM & DSP) and a fuller understanding of the various applications was gained.  A special meeting of KCC will be arranged for a week today, Mon 11th November in the hall at 7:30pm. The applicants will make a presentation to the community.  

Kilmaronock Community Trust

  1. Football pitch and playground. Work is complete apart from goalposts and lines which will be done before first home game.
  2. Fibre to the Premises. Openreach are continuing their detailed FTTP survey and those involved are getting email updates.

National Park and Community Partnership Issues

Core Path Consultation The chair reported that since the CC response differed from the LLNP desires and the CC expectations of a proper consultation differed with those provided by LLNP there appears to be a distance between the community and the NP.  To improve the dialogue and close the policy gap between KCC & LLTNPA, GM requested increased community representation on access matters under the Community Empowerment Act 2015 since as discussed at the last meeting and numerous others before it, in NP elections we elect a board member not a local representative. Local knowledge can save a lot of time and effort pre-consultation as well as during the whole process. The initial response from LLNP had not been supportive but this was only early days in building this working relationship and KCC will pursue this. 

Aber Path – the state of the path is a regular feature of KCC meetings and regular representations are made to the NP to maintain it to an acceptable standard. Having community members involved in the NP local access team would improve this expectation and deliverable. 

NNR Management  The community interest in the NNR has been demonstrated at well attended meetings on that subject. GM has approached the NP to request community participation in matters relating to the NNR on a permanent basis again under the opportunity empowered by the Community Empowerment Act. 

In both cases, paths and NNR, the NP has questioned the need for this and asked us to show why we think it is needed. We will continue to discuss the merits of local participation in our affairs in future meetings and develop community interest. Individuals interested in taking part in this then please contact KCC via the usual methods.  
General We received a memo titled “Progress update on a new recreation delivery plan for the National Park” from Kenny Auld (Recreation, Access & Health Manager, LLTNPA). A copy will be posted in the hall with the minutes and uploaded to the KCC website. 

West Dunbartonshire Council 

General / Cllr Sally Page  SP met with Raymond Walsh of the Roads Dept. Firstly, regarding the turning at Arisaig Farm entrance on the A811, Raymond is happy to meet with the NP planning team and the applicant at the site to clarify what has been done and see what, if anything, further needs to be done. Secondly, regarding the A811 Lomond Road Bridge work – work is due to start on 6th December and at first there will be light controlled contraflow before closing completely in mid-January for 27 weeks (6 months!). The official diversion will be via Bonhill Bridge. Work will start earlier if possible. SP floated the idea of WDC trialling a European style centralised rubbish collection system in Gartocharn. The idea is to save money by removing the present household roadside collections by lorry. There was a good deal of interest and discussion around pros and cons of such a scheme. No date for any trial has been given as it is still early in the discussion and planning. 

A811 pavement No further news but KCC & WDC Roads dept had planned to meet around now so we will follow up and report back at the next KCC meeting. We wrote to Derek Barr in October and GM asked if SP can help get them to contact us.

Other GM advised SP that WDC had charged him for water testing but none had taken place. Water testing is excessive and costly. SP agreed to investigate.


Nothing received other than discussed in the agenda.


It was noted that once again there was no police crime report nor police officer present in person.  Apologies for non-attendance were received post-meeting from PC Glen Roberts, he hopes to attend the next meeting in January 2020. He also submitted the following : -10/11/19) there was only one crime report raised, which relates to a 'Housebreaking with intent to steal' which took place on the 22/10/19 at the Lomond View filling station, A811 Gartocharn. This is currently

Recent rains following leaf-fall have led to blocked drains throughout the village. Pictures will be sent to WDC and cc’d to KCC. 

The road surface in Church Road is in poor state with large cracks and deep potholes. It is a long time since it was resurfaced and needs repairs. AS & GM will bring it up in their upcoming meeting with WDC Roads dept. 
RSPB will be hosting an open day on Wed 27th November in the village hall between 2pm- 7pm to showcase the plans for new paths on the reserve. 

Next Meeting 

13th January 2020 at 19:30 in KMH  Please note this is one week later than the original date of 6th January to allow extra preparation time after the holiday season. Please send in any agenda items in good time to

Special Meeting of KCC 
Status of Planning Applications Related to Arisaig Farm, Gartocharn
Monday 11th November 2019 at 7.30pm
Kilmaronock Millennium Hall   


KCC : Gavin MacLellan (GM), Andrew Sinnott (AS), David Scott-Park (DSP) & Ivan Mavor (IM) Councillor Sally Page (SP) Applicants and family and members of the community totalling 14 

Purpose of Meeting

This meeting was called by KCC due to the complex history of various planning applications and recent refusal of a retrospective application. A site visit was made on 26th October 2019 by 3 members of KCC to gain a better understanding of what was granted via the approval of application 2015/0191/DET, what was done differently from that to necessitate a retrospective application (2017/0087/DET) and what remains to be done and what led to the refusal of the 2017 retrospective application in the summer of 2019. Tonight is an opportunity to solve problems and move the issue along by discussion.

History (KCC meetings and correspondence)   Following a KCC meeting on 15th May 2017, KCC had issued an objection to the 2017 application based on, among other things, some outstanding conditions from 2015/0191/DET not having been implemented and some road safety concerns regarding access and egress from A811 to the site.  In the KCC meeting 1st July 2019 the community raised the issue of an enforcement notice being issued and then withdrawn pending the retrospective application outcome. The applicants offered to make a presentation of the status of the various issues at the next KCC meeting due in September.  KCC met with the planning authority on 5th July 2019 to get an update on the situation. The notes from that meeting were summarised in a further letter to the LLTNPA.  On 29th August 2019, the LLTNPA planning authority issued a decision notice refusing the retrospective application. As this happened so close to the September KCC meeting the applicant’s proposed presentation did not happen. A site meeting was arranged for 26th October 2019. At the KCC meeting of 4th November 2019, it was agreed that we would hold tonight’s special meeting so the applicants could make a presentation and discuss the issues openly.

Presentation by Tom Newall Arisaig Farm, formerly known as North Tullochan farm, was split off from Tullochan in 1995 and permission for an agricultural dwelling was granted. It has had several owners over the 20 years since without any development taking place. The present owners purchased it in 2015 after leasing it for 3 years. The planning permission for the house is fixed and is currently going through a building warrant. A condition lies with it that the occupant must actively farm the land.

In 2013, application was made and granted for the “erection of an agricultural storage building and formation of an access track”. There was no mention of offices. In 2015, an application was made to extend the shed and implement a business on site – drawings were displayed and explained. This too was granted. The business diversification plan was explained with the unique aspect being that the agricultural part of the business was not up and running. A farm plan was supplied on request.

Absolute was started in 2007 specialising in design, installation and maintenance of commercial renewable energy systems including agricultural customers. The Newall family own and operate the business. Examples of a variety of completed projects throughout Scotland were shown.

The business was fully described to the planners in the 2015 application and no objections were noted from any party.

The landscaping plan was explained with difficulties based on incorrect (Applicant Error) diagrams and post-application changes to the site layout. Planting of some Junipers started this year. The landscaping work, predominantly tree planting to form screening had not started, there is no fencing and no signs of intent. There is a large amount of surplus engineering material and equipment laying in fields around the main building giving the appearance of a long-term external storage yard that could evolve to become a farm dump.

In September 2016, following a complaint from neighbours about additional buildings being erected, the NP planner came on site and it was agreed that a retrospective planning application was to be submitted. Since then the NP planner, involved all the way through, left his position and the new planner had a different view in that the 2015 application should not have been approved and that the business was not suitable for the site and doubted the farming side would take place.

At the same time, the owners failed to realise (Applicant design error) that the CHP plant was too big for the proposed and approved location to the rear of the shed so was placed in 2 containers as a separate unit away from the shed. It was a mistake not to seek planning permission and a resolution is now sought – more screening being the most feasible and worst-case last resort scenario being to move it to the main shed.

The large shed does not now contain any agricultural equipment.

Between 2017 and 2019 the NP refused to determine the application requesting more and more details about the business and the farm.

The neighbouring property, Ardoch, raised objections at the KCC meeting on 17th May 2017 which had the applicants known, they would have attended to discuss. (The meeting was a routine CC meeting and Agenda was posted). 
Farming – acreage dictates capacity of 200 sheep – stocking started in 2018 and by 2020 should be at capacity. NP don’t accept the evidence that farming is taking place.

In conclusion, the Applicant agreed that there are many things that should have been done differently in hindsight, earlier community engagement, less errors etc. Currently he feels like the focus is on trying to undo the 2015 decision which the business was based on not just the mistakes made throughout what is a large project.

There is an appeal deadline with the NP threatening enforcement action if appealed.

Discussions Essentially the business wants to operate as per 2015 approved application so are seeking solutions to the 2017 issues which were essentially deviations from the 2015 plan due to circumstances outlined above.

Issues raised Size of shed not conforming to plan. The plans were shown again and the only difference between plan and built shed is the SE extension has shifted but not enlarged. There were some errors on the drawing as some details were missing for a fuel store and a fan housing. None of which significantly altered the building footprint. 
Landscaping/Screening 4-6 years behind schedule – many reasons given by Applicant. Multiple applications 2011 for house, 2013 for shed then 2015 for business use. Wrong drawings submitted by Applicant in 2015 with wrong location of access track. The approved plan from 2015 incorporates the outstanding planting from the 2013 approved plan. The approved landscaping plan could have been implemented but there are a couple of areas blocked by variations to the 2015 approval awaiting approval in the retrospective plan that was subsequently refused, though these could have been implemented after 2015 approval. In particular, the CHP plant’s current unapproved location and a stand-alone solar powered electric vehicle charging installation/car port (part of refused 2017 plan). 
Extract from 2013/0137/DET Delegated Report 
“The applicant was requested to consider the likely impacts of the agricultural building and track from the following potential public viewpoints – Ardoch, Duncryne, Ross Loan and to consider the best site and orientation for the building, taking account of the context of the contours of the rolling farmland, existing riparian tree cover and any existing and proposed buildings.  This was duly carried out and viewpoint photographs submitted for assessment.  Having considered this information, it is accepted that the building would not be visible from Ross Loan or from the Millennium Hall.  The photograph and view taken from the private road leading to Ardoch confirms that the proposed building would be largely hidden within a dip, behind the crest of the slope, and to the rear of the proposed house (approved most recently under 2011/0200/DET) which would be more visible in the foreground.  In addition, from this viewpoint the existing tree cover would provide a backdrop to the agricultural building.  Given this context, it is considered that new tree planting should be provided to assist in integrating and screening the proposed building with its surroundings and will also augment the existing tree cover.  Well planned and positioned planting will tie in with the existing groups of trees and shelter belts and will help soften the horizontal emphasis of building.” 


1 Landscaping: Notwithstanding the approved plans, no development shall commence on the erection of the proposed agricultural building, until further specifications (including the number, locations, species, densities, sizes and tree protection measures) of trees and hedgerow planting within the vicinity of the building and the track hereby approved shall have been submitted to, and approved in writing by, the Local Planning Authority.  

A site visit to Ardoch confirms that the developments at Arisaig are very visible from Ardoch House and is not hidden within a dip. The photograph submitted with the application was not taken from Ardoch House but the track leading to it. 

Proposals for alterations to the landscaping plan would still screen the new location of the CHP plant if allowed to stay where it is. Additional suggestions from neighbours are welcome. 

GM enquired as to the reasons preventing this work and strongly advised applicants to start planting ASAP – start with already agreed plan and the extra proposed hedge around the shed and hardstanding. 

The applicant stated that they were happy to remove the pod. 

NP and Business versus Farming The 2015 plan fully described the business part of the operation. Subsequent to the 2017 plan, the NP expressed doubt over the farming element.  No further development is needed for the sheep farming business as they winter and lamb outdoors.  

The shed has never been used for agricultural purposes and it appears it is not required for the agricultural part of the business. 

CHP In the 2015 plan, the plant was supposed to be installed in the rear extension to the shed adjacent to the chip drying area but it didn’t fit so was housed in two containers instead. This resulted from not checking the dimensions when it was purchased – the fuel supply system for the plant was not taken into account. Should it be absolutely necessary it has been checked and could just about fit in the shed itself although it would be very expensive to do so. If there is a way of keeping it where it is and screen it to neighbour satisfaction then any compromises would be looked at. KCC’s original objection noted no community including neighbours objection to the CHP plant if it was screened, was not noisy and did not contaminate any water sources. These ought to be where solutions need to be agreed. The nearest property has experienced low humming noises and noted it was noisier at first than it is now. It is not visible though. Road traffic to and from the site passes close to the property and lights in winter can be bothersome. Screening along the road as 2015 Approval, would be beneficial. The other affected neighbouring property although further away has unrestricted sightlines to the CHP and site. Substantial screening would be needed to mitigate that but would be possible. KCC are invited to view for themselves. Ardoch views the gable and front elevation of the CHP installation. GM - There is an opportunity to please all parties of this detail if Arisaig accelerated the screening by planting mature trees for example. The Applicant appreciates that to keep the CHP plant in its present position it needs to be screened. Furthermore, the neighbours would benefit from additional planting to screen the main building, car park and access roads. A good start would be for the applicants to look at the landscaping plan from an external perspective and send an updated proposal to neighbours for them to look at.  
Relationship of business to applicants The majority (85%) of Absolute is owned by the applicants and family.  
The access road and the junction with A811 There are two issues. One is the unmade estate road from the A811 to Arisaig Farm passing two properties and an equestrian centre and the other is the junction from that road directly on to the A811. The applicants pointed out that in the 2015 application they stated there would be a significant increase in traffic including larger commercial vehicles. WDC responded approving the plan with a condition of installing junction ID bollards. However, despite the information in the application WDC referred to only a ‘slight’ increase in traffic. Some interpreted this as a conditional limitation on amount of traffic. Another interpretation was that it was only slight increase to existing A811 traffic. 

KCC can only comment on the safety aspect of the junction on the A811 and have lobbied for improved signage and reduced speed limits. The latter was rejected but the signage will be improved (as part of a recent review unconnected to this specific case).  

Regarding the WDC contribution to the 2017 application, Councillor Page met with Raymond Walsh (Head of Roads dept. WDC) and he explained that he feels he was mis-led by the planning officer during the 2017 application process about a significant increase in traffic compared to the 2015 application as the 2017 application was not for an expansion of 2015 plan. Thus no material change to traffic volume outlined in the 2015 business plan. Further, the current junction is typical of farm entrances all along major roads and can’t be treated differently from the others.   He is now waiting on the NP to provide him with evidence of their claim. Councillor Page has suggested that the best way to move things forward is for a meeting on site of WDC roads and NP to point out what the remaining concerns are and what would be needed to resolve them. Nothing has been agreed so far.  

Effectively, there is a risk at the A811 junction but it is the same with other such junctions. In particular, the risk is increased when a vehicle turning into Tullochan from the A811 conflicts with a large vehicle coming out as there is nowhere to go other than reverse back on to a major road.  

DSP proposed that creating a passing place on the private road, to allow incoming traffic to pass outgoing traffic, would improve road safety. The passing place should be of sufficient size for a car and trailer. 
The applicants replied that they are actually already looking into a solution like this for the first 12m or so and costings are being worked up. 

Another concern on the access track is the movement of HGV vehicles through the busy riding stables area. Perhaps more signage could be looked at. Some of the driver behaviour is below standard. Any health and safety issues on Tullochan property are under the responsibility of the landowners so they have a big part to play in how they manage it. The applicants are happy to work with them to reduce any perceived risks and cooperate on managing traffic passing though on their business. No-one should be subject to abuse or anti-social behaviour and while the applicants can control their staff via company policies, irregular 3rd party delivery drivers are unfortunately outside their control. 

Future Plans The history of development here both incremental and retrospective from an unused field to a house, then a shed then and extension and a new business leads to a natural question of whether there is more to come. The applicants confirm that there are no current plans for any expansions. They have achieved an optimum stock level sufficient to be a small livestock farm alongside a renewable energy business which has actually contracted since 2015 leaving some office space available. Should the business expand to fill that space and beyond then it is likely that the whole business would need to move off site completely.  

Summary There appears to be a change in position of NP between 2015 and 2017. There was a different planning officer unsympathetic to the 2015 approval. By not conforming fully to the 2015 plan for reasons outlined above, complaints were sent to the NP and in 2016 a site visit led to an agreement that the best way forward to deal with the changes was to put in a retrospective application. This was done in 2017 and in turn led to objections being submitted as described above. At this point a change in planning officer brought about a change in heart regarding the business plan submitted and approved in 2015. However, since that is approved the business can as such carry on. The changes made that led to the need for the 2017 plan need to be mitigated or reversed/removed. The decision to appeal has not yet been made but if it were then the mitigations would all need to be supported by neighbours before NP. 

At his stage, the applicants wish to operate to the 2015 plan and are willing to work with anyone to resolve issues with the 2017 retrospective changes. 

• Screening of the site needs to be implemented ASAP and should have started following completion of the agricultural shed. 2013/0137/DET. There does not seem to be any reason for this delay. Neighbours’ concerns might be accommodated by sharing of plans and successful and timely implementation.  The Applicant confirmed that planting is imminent.

  • Safety matters regarding access to A811 – WDC roads indicate they will roll back to the 2015 conditions rather than the 2017 ones. The applicants are looking at widening the access point of the track at the A811 junction. The owners of the track and land need to agree.
  • Traffic management on the access track needs to be better managed – speed, directions and behaviour of drivers.
  • Maintenance of unmade track – agreement ought to be reached on road surface upkeep, drainage and passing places. This is the owners’ responsibility to work with the major users to a satisfactory outcome.
  • Dialogue with NP and WDC roads to look at acceptable solutions to evidence based issues. 

Further actions : KCC will review the information gained tonight and compare with the letters written in the past. We will reissue an updated document reflecting where we are now and promoting positive solutions. 
KCC will attend the meeting suggested by Councillor Page between Stuart Mearns, Bob Cook and Raymond Walsh, if it can be arranged.